Creatureless Dimir Mill *1st* SPDC 20.128

This deck is the anti-fun of the format.  Your brew better be prepared for this match-up.  This is the best true control deck out there.  Watch some games to learn how it plays out!


Creatureless Dimir Mill Cover

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Standard Pauper Players Clan Blog



16 thoughts on “Creatureless Dimir Mill *1st* SPDC 20.128

  1. Hi, i love this deck but I was wondering what was the best way to take it to the pauper (not standard). Do you have any idea? Thank you

    • Well that’s a good question. I do not play any competitive pauper events so I do not know an exact competitive list. I’m sure you could look up competitive Mill pauper lists – if they do exist. If you cannot find any then they probably do not exist. My suggestion would be to start with my list and just try to make improvements as you test different matchups and weaknesses of the deck are made clear.

      • Hi, thanks for your response. These days I have tried to adapt the list to make it competitive in pauper, but definitely will need some adjustment. I’m writing the list, I’d like to know your opinion:

        Land 22
        2x dimir aqueduct
        4x dimir guildgate
        8 island
        8 swamp

        Spell 38
        4 counterspell
        4 psychic strike
        4 countermand
        1 memory lapse
        3 disfigure
        2 devour flash
        2 gastly demise
        1 death approach
        4 grisly spectacle
        2 crypt incursion
        4 pilfered plains
        1 preordain
        1 divination
        2 dream twist
        3 curse of the bloody tome

        sideboard: (mmm i’ve lot of doubt)
        3 duress
        3 shrivel
        3 choking sand
        3 dispel
        1 devour flash

        against mono black won 2-0
        against burn i’ve lost the match-up but post side, i have included duress and dispel, and I won the second and third.
        against hex proof i’ve lost 2-0 with zero chance to do something. his start was: forest – slippery bogle, and with zero devour flash in hand i don’t know what i can do. (maybe insert another chainer’s edict in side?)
        that’s it, thanks for your time.

      • The shell of your list looks very sweet.

        You want 4 Devour Flesh main for the hexproof decks and for any creature deck really. If token decks are prevalent then it’s obviously worse but you make up for that by siding in Shrivels.

        I do not like Death’s Approach since they might not have a creature in the graveyard 1) in the early game and 2) after your crypt incursion. You have plenty of removal anyway. I wouldn’t mind something like Last Gasp or Echoing Decay to deal with X/3s or tokens/multiple X/2s with the same name.

        You also don’t need 5 blanks, which is what Curse of the Bloody Tomb and Dream Twist effectively are. Until you will the game – they don’t accomplish that much for you. You even enable other graveyard synergies and flashback spells sometimes.

        With so many counterspells and instants you rarely want to tap out, as well. This makes Curse a risky turn 3 play. I would test Jace’s Erasure in that slot. It mills more slowly but can be crucial to have in play turn 2 as opposed to 3 and being able to play on turn 4 with counter mana open can be helpful, too. You really don’t need to play it early actually – just so long as you deal with early game threats then land it as a second priority you’ll be fine.

        Add Chainer’s edict to the side for hexproof – sounds good.

        Ghastly Demise misses black creatures and is bad in the early game, which is when you need the most help. You are not a self-mill deck, so you could get this stuck in hand.

        I assume Choking Sands is good against Tron/Cloudpost type decks? Those seem like easy matchups in the first place – not sure if you need the sb slots for them. Test it out, though.

        I like land counts of 23-24 with this deck, too. You are missing the key card advantage spell in Thassa’s Bounty. That’s probably too expensive, so maybe Compulsive Research or Amass the Components is what you want. Drawing cards combo’s with Jace’s Erasure to speed up the mill clock anyway. Cut Dream Twist for sure. If you want a one time mill effect in one card then it’s Mind Sculpt – 7 cards for 2 mana at sorcery speed might be a little worse than 1 Dream Twist, though. Overall you only need 1 of that effect in the deck at most, prob don’t need any.

        End Result

        Add (15 cards)
        +2 land (1 Island, 1 Swamp)
        + 2 Devour Flesh
        + 4 Jace’s Erasure
        + 3 Compulsive Research
        + 2 Echoing Decay (sb)
        + 2 Chainer’s Edict (sb)

        Minus (15 cards)
        – 3 Curse of the Blood Tomb
        -2 Dream Twist
        -1 Death’s Approach
        -2 Ghastly Demise
        -1 Divination
        -1 Preordian
        -1 Memory Lapse
        -1 Devour Flesh (sb)
        -3 Choking Sands (sb)

        This analysis is making me want to try the deck now! I will have to build it and work on it more 😛 Lmk what you think about some of these changes and how it goes.

      • Wow thanks for your time and very accurate analysis!

        i’ve some question to you:

        -Why add 1-2 lands? Without thassa’s bounty, once you get to have 7-8 lands on the ground, is more than enough to be able to do many things.

        -Why Jace’s erasure? We only have 7 cards that make us draw 17 times, regardless of which do not always take them all.

        About +2 devour flash, I completely agree with you, death’s approach is not good.

        About -3 curse of the bloody tome, I have to tell you that against burn was the trump card.
        When he was only 1 card in hand, and I 7 mana on the field, dropping curse is perfect for him to mill many more cards than you could counter its mono card.

        I prefer dream twist to mind sculpt, because dream twist is an instant. That’s very important because in oppo end turn, if you didn’t play counter or destroy creature, you can play dream twist with flashback too (mill six card). Play early mind sculpt tapping two lands is not a good thing.

        For other changes i completely agree with you, and the first thing I will do opening MTGO, is to make these changes and try out the deck!!

        Thank you 😉
        ps. my nick on MTGO is: Vipera17

      • Cool ya I made the deck and have made tons of changes already. Maybe I’ll write an article about this deck if I get it competitive. So far I can crush most creature decks but affinity with atog/fling, goblins, and red burn decks have beaten me today. Here’s what I’m at now:

        9 Island
        9 Swamp
        4 Dimir Guildgate
        4 Pilfered Plans
        4 Psychic Strike
        4 Grisly Spectacle
        1 Crypt Incursion
        2 Dimir Aqueduct
        4 Counterspell
        3 Echoing Decay
        4 Chainer’s Edict
        1 Countermand
        4 Accumulated Knowledge
        2 Diabolic Edict
        2 Mystical Teachings
        1 Disfigure
        1 Curse of the Bloody Tome
        1 DreadWaters

        3 Shrivel
        4 Dispel
        1 Curse of the Bloody Tome
        1 Disfigure
        2 Diabolic Edict
        1 Echoing Decay
        1 Evincar’s Justice
        1 Probe
        1 Duress

        I’m not sure how to beat Curse of the Pierced Heart. We need a creature with hexproof and lifelink. Racing with mill vs burn when the opponent starts at 60 and we start at 20 for our respective “life” totals is not a fair fight.

        Add me on MTGO and we can test/theroycraft sometime. @DrChrisBakerDC

  2. Maybe playing “only” 9 counter spell is little. Countermand seems too expensive but mill four card and counter anything at the same time, is very good. Dreadwaters for me is too slow, maybe you can mill 8 or 9 cards for 4 mana at sorcery time?

    Against hexproof its very difficult, without get chainers edict or devour flash in early game.
    Against goblins I have not tried it yet.
    Against burn if you cannot counter curse of the pieced heart, it becomes definitely a problem, and i think that post side, add 4 duress its a good thing.

    in a few hours I could go on MTGO (before the weekly maintenance) and I will add you as a buddy 😉

    • Countermand is not good. The best decks in the format are too fast. I like being able to search for one in the late game with Mystical Teachings but that’s it. If you want more counters then you need 2 mana counters like mana leak, prohibit, syncopate, or condescend. Dreadwaters was really good agasinst me – my opponent milled me for 15 in the control mirror with that one card. Very effective. I have 4 Chainer’s Edict and 2 Diabolic Edict main – that’s 10 removal spells essentially – very good against hexproof and any big creature deck. Very bad against things like Goblins that swarm the board. Even if you turn 1 Duress and take Curse of the Pierced Heart I do not see how this deck beats Burn ever. Maybe Servant of Tymaret but it will likely die to Bolt early.

      • Well, it’s not perfect but I figured out a way to help our burn match-up.

        -3 Island, -3 Swamp, -4 Dimir Guildgate (post Khans release)
        + 2 Dimir Aqueduct, +4 RADIANT FOUNTAIN, +4 Dismal Backwater (post Khans release)

        In total that is a potential of GAIN 20 life just from playing lands. Daddy like.

        I’ve been crushing with this deck in the Just for Fun room. Need to test against better decks.

      • Hi,
        yesterday I made a match against stompy, and lost ever within fifth turn. Restrain his speed was quite impossible, and post-side I did not know what to change..
        have you tried against this deck?

      • I have played against it. First off, what does your list look like now?

        Here is the list I am currently running. It does not lose often to decks that primarily win by attaching with creatures.

        6 Island
        5 Swamp
        4 Dimir Guildgate
        2 Pilfered Plans
        2 Crypt Incursion
        4 Dimir Aqueduct
        4 Counterspell
        4 Echoing Decay
        4 Chainer’s Edict
        4 Accumulated Knowledge
        3 Diabolic Edict
        2 Mystical Teachings
        4 Radiant Fountain
        4 Curse of the Bloody Tome
        4 Think Twice
        1 Deprive
        1 Pristine Talisman
        1 Condescend
        1 Evincar’s Justice

        3 Shrivel
        4 Dispel
        3 Duress
        1 Negate
        3 Pristine Talisman
        1 Evincar’s Justice

        The undying creatures seem to be the most difficult to deal with. Undying Wolf and Stormbound Geist in Mono Blue Delver. It’s gonna take 2 cards to kill it unless we counter it or it’s late enough in the game that we can use Evincar’s Justice with buyback and then edict the undead creature.

        Rancor and Bonesplitter can be problematic, too. I tend to ignore it and kill as many creatures as possible, and then fire off the Crypt Incursion to buy more time if all the creatures aren’t dead yet. Most people concede on the spot to it. You can also Crypt Incursion with the undying or persist trigger on the stack to prevent it from returning to play, too.

      • Hi,
        My current list is:

        2 dimir aqueduct
        4 dimir guildgate
        10 island
        6 swamp
        4 jaces erasure
        1 curse of the bloody tome
        4 brainstorm
        4 pilfered plains
        3 tolarian winds
        4 counterspell
        4 psychic strike
        2 arcane denial
        1 disfigure
        3 devour flash
        1 chainers edict
        4 grysly spectacle
        1 last gasp
        2 crypt incursion

        Why you have insert 4 curse of te bloody tome and cut jaces erasure?

  3. I found that Curse helped end the games more quickly and filled the graveyard fast enough to make Crypt Incursion a significant source of lifegain. Jace’s Erasure doesn’t mill as many cards over the same number of turns unless you have card draw spells. But I want to be casting the card draw spells early and then laying down the mill enchantment once the coast is clear. You can’t risk them resolving multiple threats when you tap out in the first few turns – you’ll get too far behind.

    Your deck seems much more committed to the “aggro mill” plan than mine – I would call mine a “passive mill” plan. The problem is that the best decks in the format are so fast that you can’t rely on 4 mana Doom Blades and 3 mana counterspells to deal with the threats that they present. I use Curse as my win con and then literally everything else is designed to make sure I hit my land drops and don’t die. I think you should trythe land base I use and Pristine Talisman – I don’t see how you can beat burn and good aggro decks without them.

    • I think that your deck list is much more balanced than my. Radiant fountain is perfect for gain some life. What are the deck that can beat without any problems, and those very difficult?

      • And you get to bounce is back to hand 5 times potentially (4 Karoo land, 1 Deprive). And the guildgate gets replaces with the Refuge land to gain even more life.

        The deck has tons of ways to deal with creatures, specifically hexproof and big creatures. I have not lost very much to decks that aim to win primarily by attacking with creatures.

        It struggles against creatures with Undying since none of the removal spells exile the creature. In that case we only have 3 options to avoid getting 2 for 1’d. First is to counter the creature and second is to Crypt Incursion in response to the Undying trigger. Third is to play and flashback Chainer’s Edict. Overall, it’s still not that bad.

        The tough decks so far have been Esper Combo and Dimir Trinket Mage control – both decks with Mulldrifter and other solid card advantage engines that can be difficult to keep up with. In the mirror we can’t deal with a resolved Jace’s Erasure or Curse of the Bloody Tomb, either, so it’s a race at that point.

        Also mono-red burn and mono-red Goblins are lightning fast and resilient, basically need the lifegain lands and Pristine Talisman for the burn and Echoing Decay and Evincar’s Justice for the Gobos. Could potentially even use Disfigure for Gobos in the sideboard somewhere, but I’d rather help out the other match-ups since Echoing Decay is almost the same.

      • So, can you tell that this deck list is competitive in pauper? Or is too early and need some changes?

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